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Thread: Chowdren - Blazingly fast Fusion ports for desktop, consoles and mobile

  1. #101
    Actually, they're both setting the position of an object.
    Just to clarify, reposition does this while set position does this.
    I'm not quite sure why reposition is that much more expensive. I would have guessed it was crossing a grid line (a spatial partitioning optimization), but that doesn't seem to be the case.
    It could also be because Chowdren stores the coordinates in a different way internally (layer-relative), but it should be very cheap to perform the conversion (a single addition).

    It's definitely something I will start profiling soon, as "reposition" is practically the bread and butter of many engines.

    However, like Crache mentioned, these operations are done 50,000,000 and 100,000,000 times, so the work required for one unit is quite small.
    You can afford to perform at least some thousands of these operations before it becomes a bottleneck.
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  2. #102
    I look forward to test array operations with this package. thanks for the new instructions.


    I have some thoughts regarding other operative systems.
    About how much time would I need to spend in order to have a Linux/Debian game running? I had almost no problem exporting to MacOSX (Snow Leopard) in the past, but I'd really like to have support for a stable Debian distro. Can I somehow control library dependencies (haha sorry if it sounds stupid). Ie if I need it to run with glibc v2.13.

    The humble reasoning is that it takes work to get applications like Steam and Spotify to run on some respected distros (due to dependencies). I don't want people to make their system unstable for them to play my games.
    Last edited by tompa; 19th November 2014 at 10:29 PM. Reason: linux?

  3. #103
    Care definitely needs to be taken when compiling for Linux.
    This is a general problem when creating cross-distro Linux applications, and not something Chowdren by itself can fix.
    GLIBC is the biggest sinner, but the OpenAL library can also be problematic.

    Fortunately, Valve has made a compiler toolchain that solves the dependency problem: https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-runtime
    You can ignore the "Steam" part of the name - it does not depend on Steam to run.
    It should result in an executable which is very portable across different distros.
    Also, there are two very good articles on using steam-runtime here and here.

    You can do it without steam-runtime as well, but you need to make sure you're compiling on something like Debian 6/7 with an old GLIBC version.
    Setting up a VM for this should be trivial with something like VirtualBox.

    To create a standalone distribution (not really needed on Windows though), you can use "make install".
    This is configured in Chowdren's CMakeLists.txt to create a self-contained executable with no external dependencies, but it does not "fix" the GLIBC problem.
    You should use steam-runtime for that.
    Last edited by Mathias; 20th November 2014 at 01:22 PM.
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  4. #104
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    Can I just ask, why would I want to use Chowdren for a PC game when I can already do that with Fusion? The console exporters sound very interesting.

  5. #105
    Chowdren is a *lot* faster than the normal Fusion Windows runtime, so if you want your game to run fast even on older/slower machines, Chowdren would be a good option.
    For all of the games I've worked on, this has also meant that load times between frames went from ½~2 seconds to a few milliseconds.
    It's also open-source, which makes it possible to do a lot of cool things. For example, for Knytt Underground, I made all savefiles go to Steam Cloud automatically without even changing the MFA.
    For bigger games, being able to properly debug crashes is also a big plus. On the normal Fusion runtime, you do not have that option, so if you are getting crashes, you have no way of knowing what's causing it.

    The Mac/Linux market is also quite attractive now. Unless you want to use Wine wrappers (which are typically slower than native ports), Chowdren is really the only way to get your game ported those platforms.
    Last edited by Mathias; 22nd November 2014 at 12:36 AM.
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  6. #106



    I did this for myself, for the sake of planning.
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  7. #107
    That's pretty interesting! What does the Y axis represent? Amount of times faster?
    I definitely need to look into object positioning. I suspect updating the collision structure could be optimized further.

    Also, did you compile a release build? That's pretty important

    EDIT: I just did a quick check, and for objects that do not need collisions, there is a big potential for optimization.
    I will probably spend some time with it this week.
    Last edited by Mathias; 23rd November 2014 at 02:17 AM.
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  8. #108
    sorry to get your hopes up, it's based on Crache's data.

    I'm compiling when I get more parts for a Linux rig (very soon). VM is just not for me.


    Sounds good, if you've seen deficiencies in that structure it might be worth looking into. It's a big part of the genre of games made in Fusion (platformers), maybe it was optimized by CT already because of that.

    I'm just waiting for you to take on projects with multiplayer-support over internet. Do you really need college, it's kind of overrated?

  9. #109
    it would be good for those who do collision in worldspace. I've seen at least 3 users explore that venue. Particles has some potential to be less heavy as well.

  10. #110
    Positioning/collisions are already very optimized, but it's the case when you really don't need collisions after moving an object where Chowdren could be faster.
    It's already faster than the normal Windows runtime, but I'm confident it could be made even faster.

    About online support, I've worked a lot on the Lacewing protocol in the past (Anaconda even had a Lacewing port), but for Chowdren, I haven't really had any online projects.
    It shouldn't be too hard to port though, if you use the extension source in Anaconda as a reference.
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